Question about Keeda article and brevets being "easy"

[Minkey Chief]

I just read this article.

This paragraph made me scratch my head a little and wonder:

The good news is that these rides are easy. I used the E-word because brevets do not need one to possess unattainable levels of fitness. Some physical conditioning is expected, yes, but you don’t need to be a sportsperson to think of attempting. The average riding speed expected over the distances is a mere 15 kph. The challenge is to ride without getting bored, it is to ride while fighting sleep. It’s more in the mind than in the legs. What’s more? You get to take breaks whenever you want to. You get to eat whatever you want and whenever you want. And if you find company on the ride, nothing like it. Time would fly.

My longest ride is only 133km, and also I've never done long rides at a low pace. So I have no experience with this, but people who do, is the above paragraph true? I know that "unattainable" is a pretty vague word in this context, but the general idea that you don't have to be a sportsperson to ride 200, 600 and 1,000km? Is a 600km ride at 15km/h physically easy?

I know that mentally it'll be a huge challenge and that bike fit will be a major issue. But is the riding somehow akin to walking versus running?

(Tone and intent here is genuine curiousity and not a desire to start some battle.)

[deepakvrao]

Never done more than a 200, but I found the 200 brevet, with good company, plenty of stops and restaurant food a lot easier than a hard 100km ride with no breaks. We still did the 200 in under 8 hours riding time, and maybe an hour and a half of breaks added to that.

Having said that, don't know if I even want to try a 300 or 400. Beyond a point I would find it amazingly boring I think.

[dandekarvaibhav]

I agree with Doc here.

Its more a mind activity than the CardioVascular.

[kk27]

Pure simple crap!!! - sorry if it hurts someones' sentiments but it definitely is.

Heck we all know when we first started out a just how difficult cracking a simple goalless 100km is!!! imagine starting off with a 200!!! Yes once you're a rider who can ride a 100k within 4hrs & still have plenty in you then a 200 is easy. 300 and beyond.... let me not even start. in simple words for the first timers it's simply "a pain in the ass"!!! If it was really in the mind & not in the legs then I'd be completing those rides by thinking about them! the only "it is in the mind" is to conquer the mundane-ness of riding longer distances esp when alone, but easily dealt with few tricks seasoned rando's use. most common music & self talk.

To be honest the guy doesn't know what he's talking about. riding 15kmph (in isolation seems puny), so does 600 with 15kmph in 40hrs too, one needs to look everything in totality to realize the glaring misconception and how mathematics can trick you.

So Chief the answer to your question is No!! it is not physically possible at 15kmph to ride 600k. Cause then you'd have no time for breaks or food, you'll need to even pee while pedaling. A bare minimum speed is atleast 20kmph which will allow you for pee breaks & small quick food ones. though even at that speed that speed it's not really a leisurely ride where you can enjoy, cause you cannot afford to waste a single min to finish in time. A really "aaramse" ride. i.e. without tension & rush is somewhere around 22-23kmph. With 24-25 you can even afford a little sleep & morning coffee as well.

My intentions are not to hurt to anyone, but before writing such things it's better to get one's concepts clear.

[Minkey Chief]

one needs to look everything in totality to realize the glaring misconception and how mathematics can trick you.

I did think so, because if you look at the minimum RAAM speed averages, they seem low... until you realise it's including all the breaks.

My intentions are not to hurt to anyone, but before writing such things it's better to get one's concepts clear.

Meh, if I got something wrong in an article I'd expect my butt to be dragged over red-hot chainrings. The author shouldn't be getting hurt if he indeed has got it wrong, and if he hasn't, he shouldn't get hurt either, but just go ahead and defend the point. Indians spend way too much time being hurt.

[Maninder Singh]

@KK27
There are beginners who did 200km brevet without even having experience of doing long distance cycling. Brevets are definitely easier that than doing 40km in a hour.

[deepakvrao]

OK, I would probably say that kk has it right. a 200 is probably easy for someone used to 100s, and like Maninder said, possible for completely untrained guys. 300 would probably be tough and more than that would require significant training.

I think the very fact that so many could not complete the PBP shows that it is certainly not 'easy' when distances become longer.

[cryptic_abbreviator]

This is written after completing a 600.

ciao
gr

[knmurthy]

I don't enjoy very long rides either
My longest has been and will be for a long time the 200k brevet ride
I enjoyed the company, food and breaks, otherwise it would have been a pain to ride 8 plus hours alone
Murthy

[dandekarvaibhav]

Partially agree with Kaushik here, but not entirely.

I have riding riding solo for most of the time. That actually helped me a lot during that 200km Brevet, think can do solo only till 300km.

Anything above 300km will need systematic planning and training, absolutely, positively... but I'll be bored.... Mental torture.... My mind will make me give up long..... LOOOOOONg before my body. I am still assuming solo, because... other folks tempraments are so unpredictable. I have seen people riding big chainrings and being Lance wannabes. I will share the distance only with somebody I know... KK this winter we rock BTW... only 200 & 300 for me though.

Mind control is equally important, as much as efficient riding skills. Maybe a wee bit more.

Why only till 300, To release my mental block. Because I think at least 4 such rides will make me understand myself, if I have the temperament to go further. Kinda soul searching. As like physical training, Mind training should also be gradual... Base training for mind maybe?

Sorry Doc, 200km is complete No No for untrained folks... if they are still riding.. its purely due to their luck. God Bless them.

[ananth]

For a 200km ride, mind over body is for those who are used to ride 100+km with ease.
Similarly for a 400 one should have finished 200 & 300s without difficultly.
Simply stating Brevets are easy is certainly misleading. Add to that there are folks who will try a new bike, cleats etc for the first time on such long rides.

[dandekarvaibhav]

there are folks who will try a new bike, cleats etc for the first time on such long rides.

That's suicidal dude!

[pranavnegandhi]

Humans have evolved for endurance, not speed. Prehistoric hunters would spend anything from hours to days chasing down fast-moving prey and simply wearing them down before clubbing them to death. Riding for long distances requires effort, but we already have the evolutionary tools to cope with that challenge. While riding even a 200 is not easy per se, that is mostly due to the sedantary urban lifestyle rather than any inherent limitation in our bodies. Spend a few weeks or months working on endurance, and you'll be ready to crack a 200. Like Vaibhav said, anything beyond that distance becomes a mental hurdle much before it becomes a physical one.

.p

[SexJihaad9/11]

The article is poorly written, poorly researched and cobbled together by some hack who doesn't really have a clue. That said, 200 Km brevets are doable by any moderately fit person who cycles every day. There were many such people who finished the recent Goa brevet.


You just have to keep the voice in your head that keeps asking "WHY AM I DOING THIS?" at bay, specially in the last quarter of the event. (See:"The half-way point in a 100 Km ride is 80 Km" - The Minkey Chief)

[Swordfish]

for anyone who thinks 200+ or a 600 is easy, you should just try and see instead of making statements in the air. I've been there done that and i know what pain it is.

About the speeds, last time i checked we were riding 25kmph to 30kmph average for the last 10 hours in our last 600kms brevet at hyderabad. at 15kmph you will be half the distance away from finish in 40hrs. I am not saying we did the entire distance @30kmph. there were a few stretches where we did less than 15kmph. and like KK says, math can easily trick you. 40hrs seems to be a lot of time. But in reality you will not have time to take a leak fearing you will be left alone while other will continue to ride. there are a lot of things from Nutrition, hydration, rest, stretching, good and strong company, well maintained bike apart from before the ride preparation. 200 might be easy for some, yes it is to some extent since you will have a lot of company, but in any ride 300 or above, company is limited, you need to keep up with others. If you get a flat in the last 10hours of a 600kms brevet, thats it you will be done - you cannot reach in time. You will realize there is hardly 9 or 10 hours and you will need to race for the next 200kms in 8-9 hours beating your fastest hundred speed without any stops. So, its not easy!! Apart from the torn ass, burning back and long givenup legs, there will be several things will have to bear. Yes its all in the mind but you cannot finish it listening to music and riding aaramse. Try them. Experience and you will know. And for that idiot who wrote as easy rides... i am sure he didnt do more than 200kms.

btw, my 200 brevet in hyderabad last year after a 330kms brevet in bangalore and a lot of riding after that was screwed up big time. I got cramps. I probably screwed my hydration and overestimated my strength. i crawlled to the finish line and was as painful as the 600 since the legs completely gave up. So, if you do 200 once does not mean you can do it again in record time. It needs experience and things to be managed properly. thats what a brevet is about - apart from being physically and mentally ready for it.

[Swordfish]

Try them. Experience and you will know. And for that idiot who wrote as easy rides... i am sure he didnt do more than 200kms.

Sorry about the above line. The Author is Raman. A friend of mine and a fellow brevet rider. Rode with him for the 300, 400 and 600kms brevets. I am sure he might have meant it in a different context or to encourage others, but he suffers too as much as i do on these rides and all the time we finished at the same time so i know its the same pain in the ass.

[kk27]

Even if this has been written after finishing a 600 or even more, it's still wrong.

anyone can do anything if he/she decides it may well be sitting on a bike & damning your ass to a 600km ride, but it surely wont be "easy" or a "walk in the park".

as far as "in the mind" is concerned, one relies on the mind only when the legs can't. I have come to realize this hard truth after going thru it. I have done quite a few long ones on the same route atleast twice, almost all were a struggle the first time. It appeared to be more "in the mind", I had to pull & push myself to my limits till the finish, it was neither very easy nor enjoyable, though there was a charm towards the sadistic fun of coming to brink post the ride. The next time around I did not struggle at all!!! I didn't need to swear at myself, didn't need to push-pull; I was riding much stronger, the legs were doing all the talking, now it was enjoyable while riding!!! enjoyed music, scenery the whole thing. There was also pleasure to better my own timings & finishing strong. Only then did I realize how wrong I was earlier.

The mind is only for keeping the boredom away, sleep-yes on longer rides & possibly fighting the heat/cold & rain, nothing else!!!

[pamidipraveen]

I agree with Raman, i dont think Brevets are that difficult.If u have the right company and a positive attitude one can enjoy the ride. I am telling this out my personal experience,i had started cycling 9mths back and my first long ride was 200 Brevet prior to which i had never done a ride longer than 35km,had some one said that the brevet rides were tough i would have never even dared to sign up,instead there were many who encouraged me and with some gd company i was able to finish it in time.Finishing the 200 brevet gave me confidence and i never looked back after tht.I had finished 300,400 and 600 in the same season all on my MTB to become a super Randonneur,happy tht i had challenged myself and took it positively.So i suggest it would be better if we take it in a positive way to what Raman had written and encourage more cyclists to take part in such events. .Its only when u try u know what you are capable of.............

[cryptic_abbreviator]

The article is poorly written, poorly researched and cobbled together by some hack who doesn't really have a clue

Not quite, whatever else in that is true, the hack bit is most certainly not.

Raman's a great guy to ride with, and most certainly has a clue on what it takes to ride a brevet. And he can ride any distance as long as there is a promise of egg puffs

Because he trains / rides quite a bit.

I don't think that he means to say that it is easy as in: wake up one morning, beg/ borrow/ steal a bicycle, chuck off shirt, ask the next guy clutch kahan hai ? and proceed to roll out a 300 or whatever. He seems to be merely pointing out that you don't really have to be superman in order to finish one as long as you are as fit as he is and have at least as many cricketing facts, even you can do it. It is not enough to have the muscles and cv fitness and miles in your legs, you have to want to do it, it's a mind game

But maybe we could ask him what he meant ?

as to the 15km bit i pulled some numbers from here and divided distance by time and whaddaya know they are in the range 13.3 to 15 for all distances from 200 to 1200

necessary disclaimers:

maybe i would have read the article differently if i only read the sportskeeda one

I have no pretensions whatsoever about the depth of my cycling knowledge esp about rando rides.

any resemblance to real characters is purely unintentional

ciao
gr

[SexJihaad9/11]

Not quite, whatever else in that is true, the hack bit is most certainly not.

Fine. Apologies for the epithet; it was uncalled for. I stand by the claim that it is poorly written though. It has not been copy edited. (this from a person who is currently feeding himself by copy editing). There is a glaring grammatical error in the first ten words. For me, that sets a bad tone.

I also object to cyclists being described as mental or insane in the same way that I object to people calling me a fitness freak or my daily cycling runs biking binges.

Maybe it's just me.

[cryptic_abbreviator]

Not quite, whatever else in that is true, the hack bit is most certainly not.

Fine. Apologies for the epithet; it was uncalled for. I stand by the claim that it is poorly written though. It has not been copy edited. (this from a person who is currently feeding himself by copy editing). There is a glaring grammatical error in the first ten words. For me, that sets a bad tone.

I also object to cyclists being described as mental or insane in the same way that I object to people calling me a fitness freak or my daily cycling runs biking binges.

And all I attempted to point out was that the writer was not some manner of an underpaid overworked ill informed pro wordsmith. (to be entirely accurate and honest, I don't really know what Raman does when not cycling). I am not entirely qualified or wearing a wig to say "Objection sustained" or something, shall we settle for objection noted ?

ciao
gr

PS: At the risk of asking personal questions. is there an extra a in your id for numerological reasons ?

[SexJihaad9/11]

And all I attempted to point out was that the writer was not some manner of an underpaid overworked ill informed pro wordsmith. (to be entirely accurate and honest, I don't really know what Raman does when not cycling). I am not entirely qualified or wearing a wig to say "Objection sustained" or something, shall we settle for objection noted ?

ciao
gr

PS: At the risk of asking personal questions. is there an extra a in your id for numerological reasons ?

Cool. Peace.

If the author is reading this, don't mind me. Every now and then my inner grammar nazi breaks out and wants to rape and pillage.

As for the extra A, it's purely for phonetic reasons. I believe in numerology as much as I believe in an all powerful, all seeing, benevolent god.

[SexJihaad9/11]

See:




CAUTION: VERY, VERY, NSFW! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

[cryptic_abbreviator]

^^^^

a) I am having to wage war through holy terror to get "home"
b) my rando ride was just as e, i mean sexy but I was on top, really
c) I just had to live up to my id (no pun)
d) none of the above

tick any/ all the boxes.

ciao
gr

[vkalia]

I don't think the author is claiming that brevets are easy in the sense that you can just get on a bike and ride 600km. I think he is saying they are easy in the sense that they are relatively "attainable" for a lot of people, with a moderate amount of training and perseverance.

Note - moderate amount of training and perseverance, as opposed to "no training". One doesn't need to do 20 hour training weeks in order to ride a brevet.

And they are relatively accessible. Some of the people I see riding brevets are not the strongest of riders (and I don't say that in a judgmental way at all - I am a slow-as-molasses rider AND I don't ride brevets either, so far be it for me to cast stones).

Building up to ride a 200km - or even a 300km - brevet is indeed easier than trying to be competitive in a bike race.

That's all that the OP is saying.