'Pro' racers VS Weekend 'Warriors'

[sumitpal]

you seem to contradict you own statements. would like to know what do you propose in such a situation.

Sorry if it came across as contradictory. I meant to say they should be in a different category but it should be possible for the 'weekend warriors' to switch over to this faster category, it is the
possibility to switch that I wanted to emphasize on. I have had this discussion with Rajesh before and I was not sure if he was okay with this switch (he has commented on it now), that was on
my mind when I said I don't agree with him completely.

[sagarshankar]

I don't understand the hissy fits here about the "fat-bellied" remark. Its quite obvious its not targeted at fat-bellied people but at "pros" competing amongst amateurs, many of whom skinny or not, will be fat-bellied in comparison to even a lowly Cat4/5 racer abroad.

I think a great outcome from the whole discussion would be to figure out how to put in place a proper Cat system amongst amateur racers in the country - can't expect the CFI or some other government body to do anything on this. This could be a starting point: http://www.usacycling.org/getting-started.htm

[raknair]

Sumit !! You FAT_BELLIED_LAVASA_CHA_RAJA - look @ your profile pic...do justice to your reputation.

[krishna.sjc]

its time for the BBCh management to sit down a chalk out a better plan. cycling seen in Bangalore has come a long way.
isn't it possible for them to find local sponsors who can fund these races? i do agree with categorizing the riders so there is no unfair advantage to anyone

[deepakvrao]

I don't understand the hissy fits here about the "fat-bellied" remark. Its quite obvious its not targeted at fat-bellied people but at "pros" competing amongst amateurs, many of whom skinny or not, will be fat-bellied in comparison to even a lowly Cat4/5 racer abroad.

Yes, i think comprehension failure

[rpok]

EDIT: Venkat/Shankar : The point here is that if these weekend cyclist had the time to train and get back in shape then it would be fair for them to compete with the sponsored riders who are doing this full time. Note here that guys like me would personally like to ride/race with these sponsored riders and learn so its not that I agree with Rajesh about putting them in a different category but his remark is not derogatory.

you seem to contradict you own statements. would like to know what do you propose in such a situation.

1. I have the same time available as you guys to train. I've an 8hrs job daily and same is for Naveen and Lokesh too who work at Wheelsports.

2. We're professionally sponsored. We get the equipment, money to train and participate in races. The riders aren't getting salaries but their food, accomodation, travel is all being taken care of. From next year they will get salaries too.
I know i'll get 100 digs at what i say here , but i have to say this. There are levels of Pro.
UCI Pro has 3 levels - World Tour, Pro Conti, Conti.
Then come the regional pro teams made of Cat1-2 riders, that are professional sponsored. We come in that area.
I work as a Software Professional in industry - my company gives me the equipment, time, training and payment necessary to do my job. How well i do my job compared to others decides my pay or my worth next year. This is very similar to what i'm getting from this cycling team. I owe it to my team who're supporting me fully and i would not feel its right if i call myself as amateur. That's my opinion. We all know none of us is as strong as any Pro Continental or World Tour Teams. But its a start and it will grow into a Continental team sans CFI India next year. We have Italians on this forum who would compare us with amateurs at Europe - let me say the cycling scene there is much different than here. Out here India doesnt have its own naitonal team! Can you believe that? No team in India is UCI recognized. CFI isn't doing anything. No team was professionally sponsored till now.

3. We have aspirations to apply to UCI Continental Team next year and the only reason we couldn't do it this year is because of lack of funds. You just need to show ~30-40k in funds to support a Continental Team. Rider salaries have no minimum limit for Conti team. As far as we're not UCI Continental Team, it is NOT ILLEGAL to participate in any club races. We do it for experience because there are very few national races in the country.

4. Resume building - i have to say not everyone was present at the launch where the team's resume was spoken. Guys seem to have missed that we have medals at the National Championships. Lokesh was Bronze Medal at Road National Championships, other guys from Bijapur are U-19 National road Champions and National TTT and TT Champions! I'm a very modest state road and TT champion. We're not beating our chests from wins at BBCH, HCCC races.
That said, if only 5 races are avl in India at national level, what does our team do?
Regarding safety of other riders in HCC and BBCh, i leave that to the race organizers.

Speak as much as u want guys - its free will and an open forum. I do not have time or energy to reply to everything or participate in fights - i've better things to do in my life. The team doesnt believe in talking as much as riding. Soon you shall see some good results from us at a level you are expecting.

[r.venkatachalam]

EDIT: Venkat/Shankar : The point here is that if these weekend cyclist had the time to train and get back in shape then it would be fair for them to compete with the sponsored riders who are doing this full time. Note here that guys like me would personally like to ride/race with these sponsored riders and learn so its not that I agree with Rajesh about putting them in a different category but his remark is not derogatory.

you seem to contradict you own statements. would like to know what do you propose in such a situation.

1. I have the same time available as you guys to train. I've an 8hrs job daily and same is for Naveen and Lokesh too who work at Wheelsports.

2. We're professionally sponsored. We get the equipment, money to train and participate in races. The riders aren't getting salaries but their food, accomodation, travel is all being taken care of. From next year they will get salaries too.
I know i'll get 100 digs at what i say here , but i have to say this. There are levels of Pro.
UCI Pro has 3 levels - World Tour, Pro Conti, Conti.
Then come the regional pro teams made of Cat1-2 riders, that are professional sponsored. We come in that area.
I work as a Software Professional in industry - my company gives me the equipment, time, training and payment necessary to do my job. How well i do my job compared to others decides my pay or my worth next year. This is very similar to what i'm getting from this cycling team. I owe it to my team who're supporting me fully and i would not feel its right if i call myself as amateur. That's my opinion. We all know none of us is as strong as any Pro Continental or World Tour Teams. But its a start and it will grow into a Continental team sans CFI India next year. We have Italians on this forum who would compare us with amateurs at Europe - let me say the cycling scene there is much different than here. Out here India doesnt have its own naitonal team! Can you believe that? No team in India is UCI recognized. CFI isn't doing anything. No team was professionally sponsored till now.

3. We have aspirations to apply to UCI Continental Team next year and the only reason we couldn't do it this year is because of lack of funds. You just need to show ~30-40k in funds to support a Continental Team. Rider salaries have no minimum limit for Conti team. As far as we're not UCI Continental Team, it is NOT ILLEGAL to participate in any club races. We do it for experience because there are very few national races in the country.

4. Resume building - i have to say not everyone was present at the launch where the team's resume was spoken. Guys seem to have missed that we have medals at the National Championships. Lokesh was Bronze Medal at Road National Championships, other guys from Bijapur are U-19 National road Champions and National TTT and TT Champions! I'm a very modest state road and TT champion. We're not beating our chests from wins at BBCH, HCCC races.
That said, if only 5 races are avl in India at national level, what does our team do?
Regarding safety of other riders in HCC and BBCh, i leave that to the race organizers.

Speak as much as u want guys - its free will and an open forum. I do not have time or energy to reply to everything or participate in fights - i've better things to do in my life. The team doesnt believe in talking as much as riding. Soon you shall see some good results from us at a level you are expecting.

All the very best Roopak. We are behind you and we would want the team to succeed. Just be focused inwards, you have a day job and a professional cycling career ahead of you. Let people who diss at you remain where they are.

[sagarshankar]

That said, if only 5 races are avl in India at national level, what does our team do?

My worthless opinion is that you guys need to seed some level of competitive racing. And for that you need to sit down and talk to the other teams, and work at some level in helping guys who want to start their own teams. Assumption here is that us pot-bellied amateurs won't spoil your fun by starting our own teams - Jumbo Vada Pav Cycling, for example

Soon you shall see some good results from us at a level you are expecting.

Wishing you and the other teams the best. You guys doing well will only be in the larger benefit of this community

[RNair]

Roopak, I really like your post but trust me the struggle is no different than anywhere else. As much as you say you are unlucky to be in India you are more than lucky than anyone riding in the west. How difficult is it accept that? I still say this for your ability and your teams you are lucky to have everything listed above because in a cycling nation you will struggle to get noticed past a village team. Imagine how getting onto a US cricket team is compared to India?

Does that mean anyone is against this? No! Having a perspective is not right? No! Should pure emotions takes over rationality? No!

Everyone here including me is happy for you guys but sometimes I feel the media and PR team seems to have lost perspective and it would be laughed at anywhere else.

I love how hard you work and we were just supporting you the other day! As a lover of the sport of cycling I hold same the yard stick for my judgements unfortunately.

I am sorry if I am not like others or share views but I know what I am saying because I have at least experienced both sides however ugly. I rather be led with someone who has eyes and is rational and not by a visually impaired person full of emotions.

[cheewachai]

Great Thread... Thanks Rakesh for alerting me to this and passing 30 minutes of my time.

[RNair]

Anyways I am not sure how the topic again twisted. I came into this thread solely to state that there needs to be a clear definition between Categories of riders.
I am done. Off to Bangkok.

And as for that guy who like to take a dig at me. Listen man! A lot of us have moved on while you are still riding base for 11 months a year! What I take out of this discussions at time is that it is far better to be an a**licker and say BS rather than being upfront and putting real facts across. The former is well accepted. No wonder sports in this country is all screwed up.

Ciao!

[cheewachai]

And as for that guy who like to take a dig at me. Listen man! A lot of us have moved on while you are still riding base for 11 months a year! What I take out of this discussions at time is that it is far better to be an a**licker and say BS rather than being upfront and putting real facts across. The former is well accepted. No wonder sports in this country is all screwed up.

Ciao!

What's wrong with riding base 11 months a year ? ... I ride tempo 11 months a year and the remaining 1 month I do hill repeats.

[RNair]

There is nothing wrong in riding base for ever as long as your ambitions on facebook and dailymile also are weighed and listed correctly Btw not sure why you took that bait! It was not yours.

[deepakvrao]

And as for that guy who like to take a dig at me. Listen man! A lot of us have moved on while you are still riding base for 11 months a year! What I take out of this discussions at time is that it is far better to be an a**licker and say BS rather than being upfront and putting real facts across. The former is well accepted. No wonder sports in this country is all screwed up.

Ciao!

What's wrong with riding base 11 months a year ? ... I ride tempo 11 months a year and the remaining 1 month I do hill repeats.

[narayanv]

And I will only become more "fat bellied" reading this thread!!

[RNair]

And I will only become more "fat bellied" reading this thread!!

Well last mamil tour we also came back fat bellied after all the beers and cakes. So here is one from me too.

[rpok]

I can only speak on my behalf. Yes I'm getting more than what I deserve and somedays I feel like putting more hours into my cycling than office. Very tough to.balance both. My team goes out and does 204kms on a weekday so I try to ride 118on road after office and then spin for another hour ay home.
The media prints are all the teams PR activity to get visibility. Not actually under my control. We are trying to foster more competitive teams. We are really happy teams like Origin Abhibus racing sprung up soon to give us good competition.
We are also in talks to have a professionally sponsored racing series in India. India needs a lot more races.

[RNair]

Agree I think you are working really hard and I love it.

Edit : I have to say that from being a "fat bellied" cyclist tagging a MTB a few years ago to the cyclist you are today, the progress has been nothing but inspirational.

[brijnair]

Since the inception of KYNKYNY Wheelsports they maintained they are a pro team and they want to put a few Bangalore boys in to the national and international cycling scene. But interestingly all these PRO vs amateur debate is coming up only after "Specialized" came forward to sponsor them. Why was this Pro concern not raised before??? As far as I understand Specialized was closely watching what's happening in different cities in India since last 2 years and they found Bangalore to be way ahead of any other city.

They are not fools! they sponsor some of the best cycling teams in the world. The guy who is heading Specialized (Joe Weadon) was here in December 2011 for a BBCH race, he himself was an amazing mountain biker; So they very well know what they are doing. They know each and every claim that the team made about podiums or victories. If the sponsors are fine with it why we should have a problem.

SKCT is purely a product of BBC and BBCH and this is their home ground and yes we all are proud of that ; On the other hand as a racing team they need practice.The racing culture is in a very nascent state and to nurture this culture and make it better we need more races and teams need that experience. We all need a lot of racing practice. India doesn't provide enough opportunities for this.

Teams like Naesar, SKCT, Origin ABHIBUS, TCC all of these teams are trying to mature as a pro team, that's why all these teams go to other cities and participate in BBCH or HCCC or any such local races. It is a good sign that now some sponsorship is flowing in and teams are able send their people across the country or abroad. Till they get good sponsors they don't have any other go but to go and participate in local races.


As a result of this when you write your resume you can write only your qualifications; that is exactly what they did; With the money the team had, with the other limitations they could only participate in BBCH and a few other local races and yes they were the best. They didn't go and tell the world that they have won a TDF; or they had beaten French, American and Italian riders just because some weekend riders from those countries rode the race!


Now the race route chosen

I completely agree that the track we chose for that was wrong. In fact a few of us raised this concern but by the time it was too late. I honestly expected a few accidents before the race but something else happened . Well this is how you learn. and we just need to squeeze in the learning from it and move forward. I know the organizers are taking all the measures to make it safer and we will see it in the next races.

Regards,
Brijesh

[rpok]

Brijesh, we were just all getting happy, now you've opened the debate again

I'd also like to say one more thing what we've said in the media as well. Darren will be moving to Germany this year and he knows a whole lot of people in Europe. We have plans to organize summer training camps in Germany and France and send our riders there. I dont think i'll be able to go, but others will definitely go. The aim is to give exposure and condition to the riders in Europe and get a feel of the competition out there and more importantly the terrain. All these are vision statements of the team and none of them are too far fetched. The team will accomplish the goals with time step by step.

[RNair]

Why was this Pro concern not raised before???

FYI There is no concern. This caught attention only after Specialized came into the picture because immedialtely the riders changed their profession on facebook to Professional Cyclists. And many articles that said India's professional Cyclists etc. Btw their is nothing wrong like Roopak said earlier. I just wished they raced the Tour of Thailand and Not The tour of Friendship. That would have been a great experience and learning.

Also i think people need to become less sensitive and touchy. It is very common and favorite pass time of many to discuss/talk about cycling and pro teams on the net. Wasn't Roopak till yesterday ditching on pro teams from Europe? If I start a topic of Quick Step here do you think we will have some PR guy providing justifications. I think the boys need to accept that people will talk about teams, races and results. Good or Bad. After all this is sports.

I dont understand why people get so touchy and are immediately providing justifications. When you are a pro, you live a very public life and accept that fact!

[rpok]

Btw Joe Wheadon himself participates in lunch rides daily - that's a 1hr race everyday in lunch time at Specialized headquarters. And its a fricckin hard race!
Fridays they have World Championships with a jersey to the winner, who wears it the whole week until next Friday.
Alberto Contador once came and participated in that race and guys hung onto his wheel.
Google Specialized Lunch Ride (Morgan Hill).

p.s. i dont think this thread is large enough to cover the resume of Darren Reid, hence i didnt bother sharing his 20 year cycling race wins. Even he also is so modest, you can't believe. I had to live in his house for 2 days to understand how much he has raced and what all he has won! To have him as my coach and in my team is great!!

[RNair]

And Darren. Surely he is a good rider but tell me another guy who after 20 years of racing turns pro? LOL. Where I live after 20 years U retire. He has this opportunity because he is in India. And then people complain here for lack of oppurtunities. That is another fact.
We have TDF riders retiring at 35 and here they turn Pro. Please Roopak, give me a break. He must be your best friend and coach but I lost my cycling diaper a long time ago.

[wanderingwheels]

When I was down under, I asked my bro's Australian colleague what he thought about Indians. His first remark was that they are overly sensitive. How true!

[rpok]

Hehe u're talking as one should be inspired only from Tom Bonnen and Fabian Cancellara.
FYI Darren has been on UCI professional continental Teams like Rapha CX, Trek Marco Polo and many others. He's been pro for 20 years according to your own definition Rnair. So i dont see a reason why u should take a dig at him! That's why i said this thread is too small for his resume!