'Pro' racers VS Weekend 'Warriors'

[RNair]

Finally, someone lays it down in simple terms. I think folks get hurt when they read that their "hero" isn't actually an Ironman or a pro.

I said this loud and clear but they don't like it because they like to feel like kings among peasants. To the extent this fellow challenged me to come over to BBCH google group? Why BBCH google group? I will be in Bangalore next week.

Btw the real challenge is to better their own times in the Ironman events full or 70.3 and not challenging me to another forum

Sorry I could not help it. I am trying to shop in Bangkok and this thread is a real distraction.

Arey bhai Rajesh, I was not aware about the fact the HIM completion will not gives u Ironman title. Even, I havent done 25% of ur distance covered on bike.I havent even reached to ur fastest speed. Wt ever we do, we do it for fun. I Know you are Ironman. But u forgot the fact tht, U criticize every Indian for wtever they do. Im not standing on Ironman or highlighting on Ironman title issue. But u always have fun wit others matter. Other life is topic of discussion for u. I knw nothing gonna change. U keep criticizing everyone and there are people behind u to butter ur ass. But I m so fuckin sure tht u cannot Full Ironman. If u can, Plz do it and talk later. Anyways, Next year Im going to Swiss for full Ironman. Join me up if u can. Lets hav fun. But im nt the one to butter ur ass. Talking on incidence happened last week in BBCh race, I dont why u are so wated to smell their fart. come on dude , its their fight. No ego problem wit u. Infact , I love ur useless comments and tweets ..

Third class language not worth adding more to this. But sorry man you are not an Ironman "yet"! I know it hurts your "community" image. You are Nagaraj Half Ironman Harsha. But I do wish you the best to attempt and succeed at the full. Also please don't challenge me to events because I don't ride to add middle names to my original name, My father gave me one when I was born. Quite satisfied.

Does this guy represent your community? Ciao. So bored now.... I am done for now!

[RNair]

I would like to get out of this thread on a positive note. Now let me add that I am aware that I do divide opinions among people. Some agree and some disagree. I am fine with it. I do respect people who differ in their opinions and thoughts from mine. The world would be boring otherwise. A lot of good is also in this thread. I will try to pass it along to the people who matter.

Ride safe and remember there is no place for violence or drugs in Sports. Peace be with all.

[bubbu64]

Also please don't challenge me to events because I don't ride to add middle names to my original name, My father gave me one when I was born. Quite satisfied.

Man that was something to say.

[sumitpal]

Another observation based on the Mohan/Saru's experience of getting boxed in at the start, besides separating Cat1 and Cat2, the mass start race can start with a short neutral section so everyone has clipped in and the peloton is riding together. It appears from the Veloscope pictures that the guys at the front are attacking while people behind in the pack haven't reached the start line.

I saw the same problem in mumbai-pune too.

[RNair]

That is not a problem. That is how races work Sumit. If you want a result then you take the pole position. People who are not interested in a result or are worried about group riding starts at the back.

Like I said the best option used universally with success is a staggered start. 10 mins between the 2 Cats. Easy.

Does not work for Crits** But then in Crits if you get lapped you are out of the race.

[sumitpal]

By "Everyone riding together in neutral section", I meant everyone in the same Cat riding together. If everyone tries to take the pole position on a narrow road like the one in previous BBCh, and with the growing numbers, then the start point is needlessly chaotic.

[rahul13]

On the subject of what Vandit mentioned (pro vs amateur), I've been more or less working on the bbch web content this season and I happened to write a descriptor of the event which mentioned that it was an 'amateur' event. This apparently didn't go down awfully well because people seem to think its a pejorative term. It isnt! I had to finally change that because people refuse to comprehend that the words amateur and professional have very specific meanings.

Oh man, you should have stuck to your guns on this.

Well, I fought my battle but, in the end, this isn't my site so it isn't really my call per se. It could've been changed without even asking me but these people are too nice to do that (I was asked very very nicely). Having said that, the true irony is that I now think they took the right call. Looking at the idiotic reactions from the masses (and I now know why Alexander Hamilton called them asses) who insist on misunderstanding the word, it is in their best interests not to use the word 'amateur'.

I can only hope that the BBCh fight started b/c someone was defending the proper use of the terms "pro" and "amateur". That would nicely close things out.

Well my linguistic fight certainly happened that way but I sure didn't cycle-block a peloton to prove my point You are indeed a man of optimism and hope if you think such battles were fought over language in these parts. Give it time though..

For another colourful story - look up why Ali never fought arguably one of the greatest boxers of all time and the man who should have been his ach rival - amateur boxer Teofilo Stevenson.

Interesting. thanks for sharing man

Any time. I love sports anecdotes. Well, yarns of any sort actually. Somehow, when I do read about great rivalries and performances through sporting history, I do feel there is less and less romance to today's sport. Perhaps that's also because in this day and age, everything goes under a microscope and very little is left to the imagination. Not to mention the fact that our media in general has a gift for hyperbole elevating every half-decent performance to the mythical (every pen pusher thinks himself some re-incarnation of Neville Cardus). And that trend is somewhat reflected in the general trend, as exhibited in parts of this thread, of blowing performances and achievements out of proportion. Personally, I don't know Rajesh and have never met him but methinks his comments/analysis are based on actual outcome but are NOT meant to demean the effort put in in any way. And thats a very important distinction that a lot of chest-thumpers and their friends don't seem to understand.

Sometimes, Bangalore theatre people would get upset at the term 'amateur theatre'. My dad would always point out the origin of 'amateur'. It comes from 'amare', meaning to love, and so you're saying that you love something so much that you'll do it even though you won't be paid.

Beautiful! Thank you for sharing. Ever notice that its only the insecure who react badly to the term (which seems accurate about theatre circles in these parts in general)? I never knew the etymology of the word but this is such a lovely way to remind ourselves what the word actually meant. And yes I use the past tense because if this thread is anything to go by, it appears that meaning seems to have died.

But I m so fuckin sure tht u cannot Full Ironman.

I Know you are Ironman.

Contradiction much?

[RNair]

By "Everyone riding together in neutral section", I meant everyone in the same Cat riding together. If everyone tries to take the pole position on a narrow road like the one in previous BBCh, and with the growing numbers, then the start point is needlessly chaotic.

Sure. Basically that is what I also meant. Staggered starts for the 2 existing Cats. That keeps Cat 1 out of harms way and Cat 2 cannot suck wheels of the Cat 1 riders.

[dandekarvaibhav]

Truth is out there....




Black Sabbath \m/

[themadman]

Hahaha yaha pe abhi bhi kya mast chutiyap hota hai.
Ek dum puraane din yaad aa gaye.

[san2411]

Sure. Basically that is what I also meant. Staggered starts for the 2 existing Cats. That keeps Cat 1 out of harms way and Cat 2 cannot suck wheels of the Cat 1 riders.

How the staggered start can help in a Crit? Sure it will reduce the chaos at the start line but Cat 2 can still suck the wheels of Cat1 right ? (Cat 1 is doing lap 2/3 and cat 2 doing lap1). And I am not sure whether everyone participating in these races know the "group riding etiquette"(sure the elites know), which can also attribute to crashes.

[opendro]

I don't understand why people are so much vocal against sucking on others wheels. I understand that the mass start has spoiled the chances of some of the good riders to suck on the best riders as slow riders block their way. But you keep complaining about someone sucking on your wheels? If that is against the rule of the game, declare it. Otherwise, I say, anybody is welcome to suck on my wheels as long as he can hang onto it or he does not mind going as slow as my pace.

I will obviously try to suck on another fellow rider's wheel only if I can get benefit from it and so should everyone. Even the best rider has two choices: control the pace of the pack or break away as early as possible. If he thinks that he too cannot break away for the whole race on his own alone, better control the pace and save his energy by not leading all the while. He knows that nobody else can breakaway from him as he is the best.

So, where does this problem of slower rider sucking on cat1 riders arise. I eventually happen to be in cat1 (last guys in the list), but I suck on cat2 riders if required.

Sure. Basically that is what I also meant. Staggered starts for the 2 existing Cats. That keeps Cat 1 out of harms way and Cat 2 cannot suck wheels of the Cat 1 riders.

How the staggered start can help in a Crit? Sure it will reduce the chaos at the start line but Cat 2 can still suck the wheels of Cat1 right ? (Cat 1 is doing lap 2/3 and cat 2 doing lap1). And I am not sure whether everyone participating in these races know the "group riding etiquette"(sure the elites know), which can also attribute to crashes.

[RNair]

I don't understand why people are so much vocal against sucking on others wheels. I understand that the mass start has spoiled the chances of some of the good riders to suck on the best riders as slow riders block their way. But you keep complaining about someone sucking on your wheels? If that is against the rule of the game, declare it. Otherwise, I say, anybody is welcome to suck on my wheels as long as he can hang onto it or he does not mind going as slow as my pace.

Sir, you can do whatever you want. I have no problem with people sucking my wheels. In fact I think you don't remember who I am. I am the same guy on whose wheel you rode for 200kms from Vellore to Bangalore last year? Remember.

Now in races around the world that follows a Cat system, they use staggered starts for a reason. To keep it safe and fair. I don't have a problem with what you think personally because one can believe what they want but rules are made for a reason in sports to keep it fair for everyone and even if you don't believe you must still adhere to it.

So if think tanks in BBCH feels it is OK to have a mass start for everyone and that everyone can suck on everyone then fine. There is NO problem. But is it fair? No it is Not. This is not a moral issue we are taking about. This is about fair sport etiquettes. So a Cat 2 rider staying on the wheels of a Cat 1 in a breakaway while the rest of Cat 2 is trying to catch him on their own is not fair play.

[RNair]

Sure. Basically that is what I also meant. Staggered starts for the 2 existing Cats. That keeps Cat 1 out of harms way and Cat 2 cannot suck wheels of the Cat 1 riders.

How the staggered start can help in a Crit? And I am not sure whether everyone participating in these races know the "group riding etiquette"(sure the elites know), which can also attribute to crashes.

San, you are right. It was a typo error on my part. Apologies. Crits can't have staggered starts on the same course but generally they race at different times of the day. Crits are difficult to manage from that perspective. You are also right when you say that less experienced riders do not know a lot about group riding etiquettes and that is the major reason they are put in a different Cat to keep them safe as well as the more experienced.

[opendro]

I don't understand why people are so much vocal against sucking on others wheels. I understand that the mass start has spoiled the chances of some of the good riders to suck on the best riders as slow riders block their way. But you keep complaining about someone sucking on your wheels? If that is against the rule of the game, declare it. Otherwise, I say, anybody is welcome to suck on my wheels as long as he can hang onto it or he does not mind going as slow as my pace.

Sir, you can do whatever you want. I have no problem with people sucking my wheels. In fact I think you don't remember who I am. I am the same guy on whose wheel you rode for 200kms from Vellore to Bangalore last year? Remember.

Ok. Since you mentioned it, let me clear a bit here. I didn't know who you were when we rode together and I was too new (a few months) to cycling to know what pulling or drafting was and I was struggling pretty much (about 10ft at least) behind you (on my first day on road bike rented from a shop) to get any benefit of drafting. If I knew about it, yes, I would have drafted close behind you as I remember you were riding much stronger than me and slowing down because of me. Anyways, all these were only till about Krishnagiri or should I say, Mufasa. I took a nap there and had some food. Thereafter I honestly don't remember any moment where I felt you had to slow down because of me. It was only when my colleagues who are on this forum told me, that I came to know you actually lost time on the climbs from Krishnagiri till Bangalore because of me. I was too ignorant about your strength that I even offered you something to eat when you showed fatigue.

Anyways, I owe you for the companionship you gave on that ride and I'm grateful of that. But if I really knew about you, I would have let you go instead of me feeling humbled by a great rider sacrificing for me.

Regarding the BBCh race, I think, it is of no use for me riding in cat 1 in a staggered start as I don't have enough team-mates in cat-1. I will have to either make some understanding with other cat1 riders of similar strength as mine or I will have to request for a cat2 tag for myself where my team is. Or it probably does not matter as winning is not really on my radar.